tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post8574691543574058409..comments2023-11-03T03:02:00.173-05:00Comments on saki • music art books zines people: On Record Store Day, "Pop-Up Leeches," and the PointPatrickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-17110848743526576502012-04-24T17:14:27.113-05:002012-04-24T17:14:27.113-05:00Quit whining and work on your own business. People...Quit whining and work on your own business. People love Numero and they love Saki and don't be the person who starts ridiculous quarrels through the city.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-16194816691761378332012-04-23T21:22:07.199-05:002012-04-23T21:22:07.199-05:00"Be careful what you wish for." ~ Gary H..."Be careful what you wish for." ~ Gary Held, Revolver 1996Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-27453087322523120582012-04-23T21:17:28.252-05:002012-04-23T21:17:28.252-05:00Thanks, Rob!
For further comment on this from me,...Thanks, Rob!<br /><br />For further comment on this from me, see below. <br /><br />Gotta pack so I can head to NYC for some Megan Reilly release week fun. I'll leave this thread in y'all's capable hands or to its demise in the dusty archives.<br /><br />If anybody wants to read a REAL kerfuffle, check back to the very earliest posts here and the Great Best Buy Co-op Chaos.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-79964760737842478982012-04-23T21:05:03.252-05:002012-04-23T21:05:03.252-05:00Ultimately, Adam R is right. It's much more im...Ultimately, Adam R is right. It's much more important that we, and by we I mean everybody with a music related business, do what we need to to stay vibrant and relevant to our customers new and old. It is also a business and a marketplace. People win and people lose. I will sound really old here, but I came into it at a time when we would send people from Wax Trax! over to Reckless, Gramaphone, JRM, or Importes, Etc. if we didn't have something. Heck I'd even call ahead to make sure that they had a record in stock for one of our customers, and they'd frequently do the same for us. This is where punk rock sort of overlaps with hippy ideals. While we are all competing, the idea (and ideal) is that it can be done in a way that allows all of us to succeed without pushing somebody else down. This weekend has me thinking of ways that we can do this better (we can always do this better), and I have a few ideas..We'll see.<br /><br />I've never heard anyone accuse saki of undercutting anyone on price. If so, that's news to me. saki's customers have told us fairly consistently that we're too expensive on stuff. Once we bought our building, the fear was expressed to us by local shops that we would lowball, and we assured them that this was not our intention at all. The fear was also expressed that CTD would slide limited stuff to our store and not our shops. This also has not happened. CTD's sales people love their accounts to the point of protectiveness and take good care of them. If people get shorted, then it means that we got shorted, not that we've diverted stuff to saki or eBay or anywhere else. We are still primarily a distributor, and it is in our interest for our shops to be healthy and happy and making their customers happy. Doing that kind of stuff for short term gain would be a really bad business decision along with a betrayal of our relationships with those shops. I don't think we'd have customers for very long. If any are unhappy with their service on those levels, or any level, then they should definitely express that directly to Brook or me so that we can address it. Our stores are pretty vocal with us, especially when we screw up :-), so while it's possible, I would be surprised.<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! Appreciated.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-41157802283278077102012-04-23T21:02:09.828-05:002012-04-23T21:02:09.828-05:00Ian,
I don't think it's delusional at all...Ian, <br />I don't think it's delusional at all. The actual harm from Numero's pop up is likely very small. If enough people do it, at some point, it does cut in significantly. Basic economics says it has to. For example, if TG, DC, TJ, Hot Dougs, The Alley, etc., etc. all opened their own pop ups that day, it would become significant. I don't know how much or where that line is where it starts to really cut in, but I do know that stores mostly run on a shoestring and bailing wire, and the ones that ran out of wire or string are gone. So my issue is much less with Numero than with pop-ups and slippery slopes. But really there's nothing we can do about it except point out what is the possible harm and hope others can see that and empathize. I also think there are other ways of skinning the cat for mutual gain. Really, that's it. There are reasons to do it. I think there are more reasons not to. There are other possible solutions to the reasons to do it, and they might even end up more profitable.<br /><br />If I could do it over again, I would just have edited it down to a list of reasons not to open a pop-up store on RSD and then forgotten about it. I do not think that this applies to opening a new business. If somebody opened a new store and found a cool niche or way or doing it that worked and served a community that found it useful, we would all be pretty psyched about that. Why is that different? I guess that it's because it's a committed new business that's there day in and day out providing whatever service to their niche that they have found and providing jobs to their employees day in and day out. <br /><br />As I have said ad nauseum, I do NOT think it is THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD. Everyone survived it. The end.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-24353012476689675572012-04-23T18:08:46.115-05:002012-04-23T18:08:46.115-05:00obviously, i can't prove any of these, perhaps...obviously, i can't prove any of these, perhaps delusional, theories. but you also can't prove that numero group cut into anybody's bottom line on saturday.Ian Hetznernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-90269542408353555132012-04-23T18:04:43.677-05:002012-04-23T18:04:43.677-05:00i guess i don't see what all the fuss is about...i guess i don't see what all the fuss is about. when super d opened up their importcds.com site and started undercutting list price on all their titles, a lot of shops freaked out (rightfully? maybe? probably? i dunno). chicago record stores could make the same argument about saki and logan hardware but i'm guessing they don't. <br /><br />i don't make this comment as any kind of attack on saki or logan hardware and i've always had good relations with you and the guys at chicago independent. i just bring it up because we could sling mud all day and it would be missing the point. you can look at the numero pop up as a giant "fuck you" to record store day, and in turn, to record stores. i think you'd be wrong, but you could. that said, you could also look at it as friendly competition, or even, as symbiotic. <br /><br />i say the more record stores in a city, the better; for both the consumer and the store owner. it helps inspire a local culture of record enthusiasm. it helps push each store to hustle, find their niche, and exploit it. i think your economics 101 argument is short-sighted. i accidentally scheduled a record swap this past saturday and by the time i realized it was RSD we were too far along to reschedule. but, you know what? i don't think a single dollar was spent there that would have been spent on a RSD item. it's a totally different consumer. but you know what else? that record swap put $300 into my pocket, and a whole bunch more int some 20+ other dudes pockets, and we shop at record stores every day of the year that isn't RSD, thanksgiving, or christmas. <br /><br />in my opinion considering the numero pop up as outright competition is to not see the forest for the trees. the more we can all promote vinyl enthusiasm, be it online, at a swap or pop up, or in a brick and mortar, the better for all of us. yes, one literal dollar spent at numero's pop up was a dollar not spent at saki, but, figuratively, that one dollar could have been spent by a 18 yo kid who was so turned on by records that day they became a consumer for life. in my humble opinion, we all want to promote a culture of music enthusiasm; the more people doing that on RSD or any other day of the year, the better.Ian Hetznernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-80667149677164271012012-04-23T17:44:36.613-05:002012-04-23T17:44:36.613-05:00Being a distributor is one of the most thankless t...Being a distributor is one of the most thankless tasks in the music business. You're seen as a middleman, which usually means you're not seen at all. But you're still in the fray, and still hoping to break new artists, and in plenty of cases are the people really breaking new music to the masses (with nothing to show for it when the artists/labels move to the next plateau, except maybe some old stock). But the worst part is when you're a distributor with a really cool new record and the stores just won't take the jump with you (maybe for a perfectly good reason, but often enough not). There are plenty of reasons why CTD needs a storefront, and the fact that they're importing and distributing some esoteric stuff is a big one (and I hear there's also some stock of Coctails records laying around). It's not really close to any other shop, so the business stolen would have to be neighborhood cats who now don't want to travel a few Blue line stops anymore. It still might annoy other stores in some way, but no store would probably guarantee to pick up every last CTD-distributed title either.Rob Sevierhttp://www.numerogroup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-24855935226627947422012-04-23T16:23:11.039-05:002012-04-23T16:23:11.039-05:00If Numero opened a real store, I would shop there!...If Numero opened a real store, I would shop there!Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-7293300827685988782012-04-23T14:23:05.273-05:002012-04-23T14:23:05.273-05:00I'm kind of surprised with all the vitriol and...I'm kind of surprised with all the vitriol and it makes me think a lot of people have never been to either pop up. I literally cannot imagine anyone only hitting up the Numero pop up - yes, you can purchase a bunch of Numero releases, but the bigger thrust behind the pop up seems to be guys with awesome personal collections of old records selling their own records. I've been both years and have purchased awesome old LPs and then proceeded to Reckless, Saki and Permanent to pick up the exclusive RSD releases I wanted. I also think Numero offers something special and unique in that there are dudes DJing great music but you don't have to worry about trying to shop screaming over bands performing in often less than ideal settings. I hope the pop up comes back next year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-15146609296406910312012-04-23T11:26:26.014-05:002012-04-23T11:26:26.014-05:00I don't see any problem with what Numero did, ...I don't see any problem with what Numero did, whatsoever. Time would be better spent on getting more people in to Sakistore, rather than complaining about something one can't control or influence.Adam Reachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00396147948827704034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-57170629483930754952012-04-22T15:45:12.984-05:002012-04-22T15:45:12.984-05:00Carrot Top distribution took away a lot of busines...Carrot Top distribution took away a lot of business EVERY DAY from small shops when they opened their OWN shop, Saki. Numero might do a pop up once a year, but Carrot Top stole business from all their clients when they opened Saki. Just sayin'...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-8479454037799476822012-04-20T14:34:29.431-05:002012-04-20T14:34:29.431-05:00Rob,
I have no illusions that me saying anything w...Rob,<br />I have no illusions that me saying anything will change your behavior. You guys are perfectly clear on your intent and on your motivations for doing so. I get that. My disagreement is not on the need for small business, and music businesses specifically, to do creative things to keep the doors open. My disagreement is with the specific timing and method.<br /><br />I hope that by expressing myself, I can help give voice to what others have been silently thinking. I also hope that it might give somebody else a chance to at least consider a different point of view before doing the same thing next year. <br /><br />I presented your side of it because you offer a lot of points. I think I can counter most of them, but that does not mean that they are not valid arguments. I have done my best to keep things unemotional, level, and point by point reasoned. No shouting. No name-calling. No vitriol. If I have failed, then I apologize–-sincerely and publicly.<br /><br />I hope that we do continue to get along great, for if not, that would be the biggest loss in this whole teapot-sized tempest by far. I've bent over backwards to express my, and our, love and admiration for what you crazy dudes do over there. I am the one that sent Langford your information so you could be on his XRT radio show four years ago. Julia is the one who told Michael Abramson, while walking dogs in Horner Park, that "some crazy reverend guy" was legit, and that he should at least explore working with you on a project that ended up being nominated for a Grammy. And if I'm in the shop and somebody doesn't know what to buy, a Numero release would be a likely starting point for suggestions.<br /><br />I don't think Peter was trying to shame you, and my emails to you were intended NOT to do so, but the issue was raised. It appears that others feel similarly, and so I wrote up my post. From the feedback we have gotten, that appears to be the case.<br /><br />I am sure that the pub will put some extra $$ in the Numero coffers tomorrow, and I won't even send you a bill for my services. I look forward to spinning the fruits of your labors a few months from now. ;-)Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-24880974904041179802012-04-20T14:19:25.760-05:002012-04-20T14:19:25.760-05:00Lunch thoughts...Numero are spot on about this: it...Lunch thoughts...Numero are spot on about this: it IS a problem for shops to stock deep catalog. I would bet that for RSD, many would take in full, or at least very deep, label catalog on consignment. Their only cost is the time to process and shelf space. We would do that. This would solve at least one of the problems and consignment is the only way we are able to stock deep catalog as a distributor on a razor thin margin.<br /><br />That would allow a shop to set up a featured label section for catalog labels like Numero, or Light in the Attic, or Soul Jazz. Nobody's ever asked, but I'd bet that stores would be receptive. If I'd thought of it in this specific context sooner, we would have.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-11745426814199691942012-04-20T13:09:31.386-05:002012-04-20T13:09:31.386-05:00I'm pretty confident there's at least one ...I'm pretty confident there's at least one independent record shop in Chicago that would have loved to set up a Numero pop-up in house.Ed P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04537534205123333419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-73108795274689876232012-04-20T12:52:28.970-05:002012-04-20T12:52:28.970-05:00When I sent you the email that you quoted from (bu...When I sent you the email that you quoted from (but I certainly think you conveyed the weight of, but that is, like all things, debatable) you replied simply "We disagree." That's fundamentally what this is, a disagreement between a few people in the same industry who don't really actually compete very much (when you get right down to it) and usually get along great (and still will, I'm sure). But, publicly shaming us (which, sorry, that is what this blog entry is) means that you really feel this is a truly moral battle. It's not. It's a bunch of small business in a changing, shifting, contracting industry trying to figure out the best way to survive. There's no doubt that all these record stores, labels, venues, and distros need each other, but that each of us are ultimately responsible for keeping our own doors open against significant odds. It is the blessing and curse of independence.Rob Sevierhttp://www.numerogroup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-19954384470667852672012-04-20T11:14:49.710-05:002012-04-20T11:14:49.710-05:00I don't have to imagine it either, Robb. This ...I don't have to imagine it either, Robb. This all started from CTR. I couldn't get paid, so I started a cartel of other small labels so that we always had new releases. It ran out of my desk in our apartment. And I've been up front from my very first letter to you on the subject that I get it. I do.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-21698646012095498592012-04-20T11:10:22.268-05:002012-04-20T11:10:22.268-05:00Like I said above, I trust Peter that he did what ...Like I said above, I trust Peter that he did what he said he did. I assume he's telling the truth until proven otherwise. His piece is pretty even handed. He has no obvious ax to grind, and he doesn't inflate the importance of it at all. I don't get a motivation for making stuff up. Different perspectives would have made for a better story, even if they don't agree with me or JRM.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-12853359690815427482012-04-20T11:07:35.312-05:002012-04-20T11:07:35.312-05:00Rob,
I don't sit around worrying about it. and...Rob,<br />I don't sit around worrying about it. and I am quite busy with other stuff. We want Numero to be here, but think there are other ways you can do it than this specific one on this specific day. Other stores agree, I guess, so I wrote about it.<br /><br />We have yet to make a dime off of a performance at saki.<br /><br />There is plenty of other stuff going on that I do spend time worrying about. Yep. Back to it. Have a good day tomorrow, even though.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-21774194760329202682012-04-20T09:59:18.355-05:002012-04-20T09:59:18.355-05:00Perhaps Peter got quotes, but they didn't matc...Perhaps Peter got quotes, but they didn't match the tenor of his story? It's highly likely that most stores don't have the same reductionist perspective that you have. We are a small independent label, a much smaller operation than your operation (which includes distribution, mailorder, a label, a small performance space, and a store). We are just a record label, we don't have other income streams. Try to imagine for a moment if you only had a record label and what it would be like to live off that income. Your perspective, in essence is that we're competing with stores. Our perspective, in essence, is that we're competing with major labels. You don't agree, but you would very likely see things different if you ONLY had a record label. I just have to imagine there are better personal crusades for you to take on.Rob Sevierhttp://www.numerogroup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-37906838429018249012012-04-20T07:57:40.325-05:002012-04-20T07:57:40.325-05:00I take Peter at his word that he tried. He just di...I take Peter at his word that he tried. He just didn't call us, at least that I've been able to learn. With the advent of phone and Internet, physical proximity is much less of an issue. Plus, I got to say Número Ninjas! :-)Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032314428398723321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-38255902102645067892012-04-20T01:48:27.501-05:002012-04-20T01:48:27.501-05:00I have not read the Reader article in full, but pe...I have not read the Reader article in full, but perhaps only having comments from JRM is lazy journalism. Their store is doors away from the Reader offices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20991992.post-60074130998183493522012-04-19T21:28:12.695-05:002012-04-19T21:28:12.695-05:00Great to get this point of view. I wish the Reader...Great to get this point of view. I wish the Reader would have covered this issue a little more extensively (although I wish that about pretty much every subject they cover). <br /><br />Also, I know that this is totally not the point of this post, but if saki starts a book club, I am so in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com